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To be continued...
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01/26/2018 - 6:28 pm

benedek said

But if he were sure about Robin and only suspicious about Cormoran why would he care? If it turned out he was right and C tried to make a move, it would simply frighten Robin off of him, right? (Which would be even of an advantage.) If he thought R was not interested in C....  

He cares because, Strike is still a threat, not because Robin is attracted to him, but because he disrupted his plans for this perfect life. He knows that as long as Strike is a part of Robins life his own plans are on hold, witch is unacceptable. Strike needs to go, so he picks fight in the belief that Robin will chose him and their marriage, a stable life over the job.

In the beginning of CoE when they are fighting after the double date with Sarah, Matthew is aware of the fact that Sarah was shit steering, but he sees the opportunity and takes advantage, again in the belief that Robin would and should choose him over the job, ha just has to make the job as unpleasantness as he can the only way he knows how.

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01/26/2018 - 6:19 pm

benedek said

But if he were sure about Robin and only suspicious about Cormoran why would he care? If it turned out he was right and C tried to make a move, it would simply frighten Robin off of him, right? (Which would be even of an advantage.) If he thought R was not interested in C....  

Because he thinks Robin will do it if she is going to do it to get back at him, for a fight they had or because he cheated on her. He has his believes about mens nature and for Robin he thinks Cormoran it's just an opportunity for revenge! I can also be mistaken and he might indeed see Cormoran as a rival for Robin's heart...

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01/26/2018 - 6:12 pm

benedek said

OK, but why did Robin think he was jealous? And why did C think the same? And even her mother? Were they all wrong? And why reading secretly her emails to Cormoran?  

At this point I believe they both didn't know that Matthew has cheated on Robin but anyway...
I say he is more afraid than jealous of Cormoran because of his believes and because of his past!
Matthew believes that a man will flirt and try to get a beautiful woman into his bed and because he cheated in the past he is afraid that it will happen to him too!
Matthew doesn't believe that Robin could fall in love with Cormoran but is afraid that she might go and sleep with him to get back at him or because of a fight or because karma is a bitch! 😉
Also being afraid of something and doing things to prevent it from happening looks a lot like jealousy at least to me!
After their fight he imagined Robin going to the office but in the flat above and Cormoran waiting for her and I remember wondering when I re-read The silkworm if Matthew does what he was afraid of (did he go and sleep with another woman every time he has a fight with Robin and his ego is in it's low?)

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01/26/2018 - 6:09 pm

Caitlin said

Matthew has a big idea about himself and the only reason he is jealous/afraid of Cormoran is because of what he did and because he has an idea about how men are and what men do when they are around a beautiful woman.  

But if he were sure about Robin and only suspicious about Cormoran why would he care? If it turned out he was right and C tried to make a move, it would simply frighten Robin off of him, right? (Which would be even of an advantage.) If he thought R was not interested in C....

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01/26/2018 - 5:57 pm

On page 166 of CoE when Robin is thinking back to their fight.

"-You are so bloody naive!... He is your friend until he tries to get you into bed, Robin!
- Who are you judging him by? ..."

This for me just shows that Matthew is judging Cormoran by his own standers, he would take advantage of a good looking secretary if the situations wear reversed.

Caitlin said
As far as I know people that do something bad are afraid that it will happen to them too! Matthew has a big idea about himself and the only reason he is jealous/afraid of Cormoran is because of what he did and because he has an idea about how men are and what men do when they are around a beautiful woman.  

I think this is spot on Caitlin!

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01/26/2018 - 5:57 pm

Caitlin said

He might be jealous but I don't think he believes Robin could ever be romantically interested in Cormoran! I think the reason he asked if Cormoran has a girlfriend it's because he is afraid Cormoran will flirt with Robin and persue her to cheat on him!
As far as I know people that do something bad are afraid that it will happen to them too! Matthew has a big idea about himself and the only reason he is jealous/afraid of Cormoran is because of what he did and because he has an idea about how men are and what men do when they are around a beautiful woman.  

OK, but why did Robin think he was jealous? And why did C think the same? And even her mother? Were they all wrong? And why reading secretly her emails to Cormoran?

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01/26/2018 - 5:54 pm

Leafling said

However amazing it would be to read this, I just don't see this happening in canon. Everything we read about her in the books just emphasizes how much of a good person she is. A good person takes others feelings into consideration and even on occasion places others needs above her own, for this I don't see Robin stooping the wedding. And to kiss someone other than her husband on her own wedding day, is just too out of character for Robin. Keep in mind she couldn't go true with cancelling the wedding after the breakup, I just don't see her doing this on the DAY OF.  

Oh, I didn’t say they would kiss in front of all the guests! 🙂
And then she could withdraw hrself from the reception relatively discretly. At least without a huge scandal.

Now I see your point with Robin being a good person who would not do such a thing.... It also bothered me for a while, when I christallysed my theory. 🙂 But you know, Robin is constantly evolving during the books, moving from being an obeyant girlfrend and an obeyant secretary to an independent individual. This could be a next step on her path...

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01/26/2018 - 5:48 pm

benedek said

Leafling said

Once Robin starts to deter from this, they start to fight. His jealous comes out, but, I don't think he feel threatened by Strike as a man as much as he feel robed of this perfect life by him.

Well, when they first meet, in the pub, he asks Cormoran whether he has a girlfriend. We also learned that this was not just a sudden thought of him but he was contemplating asking this for long. In the beginning of CoE Sarah praises Cormoran a lot as a man and this pisses Matthew up (he interprets the conversation as if Robin agreed with Sarah). When they break, and Robin tells Cormoran about it, she says "He thinks... He doesn't believe you and I are just friends.". And Cormoran's reaction: "This was no surprise to Strike. He had read suspicion in every look Matthew had ever given him, heard insecurity in every chippy comment thrown his way." Even before this, when her mother explicitly asked (see: even her mother sensed it), Robin confessed her that Matthew was jealous. And if he was not jealous why would he reading her emails to Cormoran? (Robin caught him doing this already at the beginning of CoE.)

For me it is pretty clear that Matthew is jealous.  

He might be jealous but I don't think he believes Robin could ever be romantically interested in Cormoran! I think the reason he asked if Cormoran has a girlfriend it's because he is afraid Cormoran will flirt with Robin and persue her to cheat on him!
As far as I know people that do something bad are afraid that it will happen to them too! Matthew has a big idea about himself and the only reason he is jealous/afraid of Cormoran is because of what he did and because he has an idea about how men are and what men do when they are around a beautiful woman.

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01/26/2018 - 5:44 pm

benedek said

I picture Robin and Cormoran speaking right after the ceremony a lot of emotion coming up ( and I see them kissing. 🙂  

However amazing it would be to read this, I just don't see this happening in canon. Everything we read about her in the books just emphasizes how much of a good person she is. A good person takes others feelings into consideration and even on occasion places others needs above her own, for this I don't see Robin stooping the wedding. And to kiss someone other than her husband on her own wedding day, is just too out of character for Robin. Keep in mind she couldn't go true with cancelling the wedding after the breakup, I just don't see her doing this on the DAY OF.

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01/26/2018 - 5:37 pm

Leafling said

Once Robin starts to deter from this, they start to fight. His jealous comes out, but, I don't think he feel threatened by Strike as a man as much as he feel robed of this perfect life by him.

Well, when they first meet, in the pub, he asks Cormoran whether he has a girlfriend. We also learned that this was not just a sudden thought of him but he was contemplating asking this for long. In the beginning of CoE Sarah praises Cormoran a lot as a man and this pisses Matthew up (he interprets the conversation as if Robin agreed with Sarah). When they break, and Robin tells Cormoran about it, she says "He thinks... He doesn't believe you and I are just friends.". And Cormoran's reaction: "This was no surprise to Strike. He had read suspicion in every look Matthew had ever given him, heard insecurity in every chippy comment thrown his way." Even before this, when her mother explicitly asked (see: even her mother sensed it), Robin confessed her that Matthew was jealous. And if he was not jealous why would he reading her emails to Cormoran? (Robin caught him doing this already at the beginning of CoE.)

For me it is pretty clear that Matthew is jealous.

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01/26/2018 - 5:31 pm

benedek said
My prediction is scenario 5, but I can also imagine scenario 3.

I picture Robin and Cormoran speaking right after the ceremony (as soon as it is reasonably possible) a lot of emotion coming up (and also information, maybe the deleted calls as well) and I see them kissing. 🙂 After this, Robin will certainly not go for the honeymoon with Matthew (she will not even appear on the reception claiming headache or something) and file for divorce as soon as possible (if it is necessary at all, maybe it is somehow possible to annul the marriage at this very early stage).  

The things I will hate during this scenario...
1: Robin and Matthew leaving the church as a married couple.
2: Their kiss as a married couple.
3: I don't know if you can annul a marriage.
and
4: That Matthew can again manipulate her into get back with him now she is his wife and them being married during 1-2 books more!
Ooooh my God I believe I'm gonna throw the book out the window if I get to read all this! lol

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01/26/2018 - 5:28 pm

Exactly! Ha douse not see the appeal in Strike. He doesn't see Strike sleeping with beautiful woman and supermodels to change his opinion. For him, Strike is a half legged man whiteout a real job and any financial prospects (he can't even give Robin a decent salary). Not to mention Strike is not a good looking man ( Tom Bruke doesn't count), where he is and he knows woman find him attractive ( Sarah, the waitresses at the end of CoE). The only time he is somewhat threatened by him is when he finds out his (Cormoran's) father is a famous rock star, but even that doesn't last for long. He was raised by him mother in the belief that he is too good for everyone especially for a Masham girl like Robin, therefore.

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01/26/2018 - 5:24 pm

My prediction is scenario 5, but I can also imagine scenario 3.

I picture Robin and Cormoran speaking right after the ceremony (as soon as it is reasonably possible) a lot of emotion coming up (and also information, maybe the deleted calls as well) and I see them kissing. 🙂 After this, Robin will certainly not go for the honeymoon with Matthew (she will not even appear on the reception claiming headache or something) and file for divorce as soon as possible (if it is necessary at all, maybe it is somehow possible to annul the marriage at this very early stage).

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01/26/2018 - 5:12 pm

Leafling said

I mean we know from the first 3 books that he (Matthew) has this image/ fantasy of a perfect life in London and he is doing his best to mold Robin into this fantasy. The proposal, the respectable job and high salary for bout of them... We also know that up until Robin started working for Strike, she went along with this fantasy. Once Robin starts to deter from this, they start to fight. His jealous comes out, but, I don't think he feel threatened by Strike as a man as much as he feel robed of this perfect life by him.

When the affair comes out, and Robin leaves with Strike to Barrow, ha sends the text "If you sleep with him we are over for good." This shows that he still belies he is in control of this relationship despite his actions and the breakup is just an another bump in the road just like Robins job. He belies himself the better option for Robin, and the fact that Sarah still linger in the sidelines after all thees years just proves him that. The only reason he send this text is because he know if the situations wear reversed he would take advantage and sleep with someone else. When they get back together, just like he knew they would, at the first opportunity he douse everything he can to keep Strike away from Robin and from their life. He is smart and bids his time, he shows the article for Robins replacement even when he is aware of the affect it will have on her and when Strike calls her, he deletes the voicemail (but not before listening to it ) and blocks his nr.

Considering how much effort he puts in all this, the fact that Cormoran shows up an their wedding, might just push him enough to get angry and end it all before he gets humiliated by him or by Robin.  

So you believe that Matthew doesn't want Strike only because he is an obstacle to the life he imagined he would have with Robin in London and doesn't consider him a rival in the romatnic aspect and when he sees him in the church he will understand that Robin will go back to work and all his hopes to lead the life he wants will shatter and that will give him the motive to stop the wedding because Robin's reaction doesn't please his ego. Could work! Everytime Matthew imagined Robin sleeping with Cormoran was only as a mean to get back at him! In The Silkworm after their fight and Robin leaving early he imagined that she went to Cormoran's flat to sleep with him and in CoE he imagined that Robin would sleep with Cormoran to get back at him for his cheating! He doesnt' believe that Robin could be interested romantically for Strike and the only way for her to sleep with him is for revenge towards Matthew!

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01/26/2018 - 5:02 pm

Caitlin said
Scenario 2: Matthew snaps after Robin's reacation and leaves her at the altar.
  

I mean we know from the first 3 books that he (Matthew) has this image/ fantasy of a perfect life in London and he is doing his best to mold Robin into this fantasy. The proposal, the respectable job and high salary for bout of them... We also know that up until Robin started working for Strike, she went along with this fantasy. Once Robin starts to deter from this, they start to fight. His jealous comes out, but, I don't think he feel threatened by Strike as a man as much as he feel robed of this perfect life by him.

When the affair comes out, and Robin leaves with Strike to Barrow, ha sends the text "If you sleep with him we are over for good." This shows that he still belies he is in control of this relationship despite his actions and the breakup is just an another bump in the road just like Robins job. He belies himself the better option for Robin, and the fact that Sarah still linger in the sidelines after all thees years just proves him that. The only reason he send this text is because he know if the situations wear reversed he would take advantage and sleep with someone else. When they get back together, just like he knew they would, at the first opportunity he douse everything he can to keep Strike away from Robin and from their life. He is smart and bids his time, he shows the article for Robins replacement even when he is aware of the affect it will have on her and when Strike calls her, he deletes the voicemail (but not before listening to it ) and blocks his nr.

Considering how much effort he puts in all this, the fact that Cormoran shows up an their wedding, might just push him enough to get angry and end it all before he gets humiliated by him or by Robin.

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01/26/2018 - 4:56 pm

Leafling said
Thanks so much for this Catlin, I just can't get enough of this, and waiting for Lw is so much bearable when I can at least discuss the topic with fellow fans.  

I very much agree on that! I'm also very happy to have all of you to talk things out!

Leafling said
I believe this is the most likely scenario, considering what a narcissistic tosser Matthew is. It would fit his character and it would also leave Robin and Cormoran free of him and at he same time they can keep their romantic feelings to them self at the present time. This way JKR could build the romantic tension further.  

I like the way you put it but on the other hand Matthew doesn't like to lose and sometimes I think he isn't going to react that very moment so he can rub on Cormoran's face that he made it and is now Robin's husband and there is nothing he can do about it!

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01/26/2018 - 4:26 pm

Thanks so much for this Catlin, I just can't get enough of this, and waiting for Lw is so much bearable when I can at least discuss the topic with fellow fans.

Caitlin said
I wish I could make this topic into a poll so we could vote but since I can't we can talk abou it, what do you think?

Scenario 2: Matthew snaps after Robin's reaction and leaves her at the altar.

  

I believe this is the most likely scenario, considering what a narcissistic tosser Matthew is. It would fit his character and it would also leave Robin and Cormoran free of him and at he same time they can keep their romantic feelings to them self at the present time. This way JKR could build the romantic tension further.

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01/26/2018 - 4:10 pm

I wish I could make this topic into a poll so we could vote but since I can't we can talk abou it, what do you think?

Beginning of Lethal White:

Scenario 1: The end of CoE wasn't a cliffhanger at all, Robin is married and we will read about the wedding reception in the first chapter of LW.

Scenario 2: Matthew snaps after Robin's reacation and leaves her at the altar.

Scenario 3: Robin has a kairos moment and realizes that a married life with Matthew isn't what she wants and leaves him at the altar.

Scenario 4: Sarah or someone else stops the wedding.

Scenario 5: The wedding takes place, in the reception Robin finds out about what Matthew did with her phone and leaves him.

Scenario 6: The ceremony takes place, reception goes well, Robin leaves with Matthew for their honeymoon.

Scenario 7: The ceremony takes place, reception goes well, after that Robin and Matthew have a fight don't break up but are in bad terms.

If you have something else in mind please feel free to add it! 🙂

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