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The roses delivered to Robin in CoE
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01/24/2018 - 5:21 pm

LindMea said
But in regards to the roses that Robin got sent... I just thought of something horrible 🙁 So we know that the man who raped Robin was a serial rapist, and that she got him put away - but we don't know for how long. I looked up legal sentences in England, and found this starting point - "repeated Rape of same victim by single offender or rape involving multiple victims: 15 years custody" I think it is quite possible that the guy didn't get a harsher sentence, because let's be real - he's a middle aged, mild mannered white dude. If he got fifteen years, that means he could be out on parole in 7.5 - and how long ago was the rape? Was it when Robin was 19? If it was, this guy could be OUT OF JAIL. What if he's become fixated on Robin as the one who escaped and got him locked up? What if the flowers are a threat of some kind??
 

I do think you are onto something. When JKR does not supply us with a definitive answer this usually means that it's a plotline wainting to happen. From the point of character development, I do understand why she WOULD bring this horribly guy into it all. On the other hand, I just want him to rott in hell and NEVER to bother Robin again!
Then again, this might bring Strellacott closer together....

benedek said

honoraryskywalker said
But if Rowling only wanted to use the roses to show us that Robin doesn't really love Matt, she could have found other "easier" solutions.
 

Rowling seems to be obsessed about the motive of kicking off bunches of flowers. Throughout the books, three bunches of flowers were kicked off (or knocked over).

Maybe it means something, but I also cannot find out what. Could it be an allegory of Strike setting Matthew aside in Robin's life?

And, also, I think the scene when Strike opens the door for Robin with the roses, accompanies her up to the office is cute. And when Wardle assumes they are from Strike to Robin....  

I agree. There are constanty flowers being given or received by parties, who are insincere or indifferent about love: Roses as given by probably Matthew, maybe even the rapist; Robin not appreciating the roses because she thinks its just a spiel, and later on even being annoyed by the duty of picking flowers because she is preoccupied by the case.

So the symbolism of flower-giving and receiving is rather connected to "insincere love" (or the appearance of love), which could hint at the fact that the destruction of flowers (through Strike, several times) is the opposite, namely the affirmation of true love.

Gosh, I'm really having just too much fun with this, don't I ! 😀

wit beyond measure is man's greatest treasure

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01/20/2018 - 1:57 pm

LindMea said
I'm still collecting my thoughts about all the different appearances of flowers, because they definitely were all over the place!

But in regards to the roses that Robin got sent... I just thought of something horrible 🙁 So we know that the man who raped Robin was a serial rapist, and that she got him put away - but we don't know for how long. I looked up legal sentences in England, and found this starting point - "repeated Rape of same victim by single offender or rape involving multiple victims: 15 years custody" I think it is quite possible that the guy didn't get a harsher sentence, because let's be real - he's a middle aged, mild mannered white dude. If he got fifteen years, that means he could be out on parole in 7.5 - and how long ago was the rape? Was it when Robin was 19? If it was, this guy could be OUT OF JAIL. What if he's become fixated on Robin as the one who escaped and got him locked up? What if the flowers are a threat of some kind??

I know that this is absolutely off the wall. I actually think that Matthew sent the flowers, and that the unread card is really just another signal to the reader that Robin should not marry this guy, because she doesn't actually love him!

I just thought I'd throw another crazy theory out there :p  

I think you are right LindaMea. While reading CoE, I kept thinking, that the killer will be someone we don't even suspect and I was certain that it will be the man how raped Robin and I was pissed off that Cormoran didn't even think of him as a suspect. Let's face it, he has more reason to hate her than anyone else and the leg was addressed to Robin after all. Even thou this wasn't the case, Robin was in the papers after the silkworm and it's not that hard to find the address to Strikes office just as Donald L. did. I'm really looking forward to seeing if he turns up in the next book. The card should still be in Robin's desk in the office after all.

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07/24/2017 - 4:07 pm

honoraryskywalker said
Benedek: Yes, there were also the white roses in Deeby Macc's flat in Cuckoo's Calling.
And I agree... that whole exchange between Wardle, Robin and Strike was so awkward. Who knows, maybe sooner or later Cormoran will buy her roses for real...

DonnaN: I'm sorry I couldn't really participate in the book club this time round, I'm looking forward to the one for Lethal White though :).  

No worries! Looking forward to the next book.CoolCoolCool

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07/24/2017 - 2:28 pm

Benedek: Yes, there were also the white roses in Deeby Macc's flat in Cuckoo's Calling.
And I agree... that whole exchange between Wardle, Robin and Strike was so awkward. Who knows, maybe sooner or later Cormoran will buy her roses for real...

DonnaN: I'm sorry I couldn't really participate in the book club this time round, I'm looking forward to the one for Lethal White though :).

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07/24/2017 - 1:19 pm

honoraryskywalker said
But if Rowling only wanted to use the roses to show us that Robin doesn't really love Matt, she could have found other "easier" solutions.
 

Rowling seems to be obsessed about the motive of kicking off bunches of flowers. Throughout the books, three bunches of flowers were kicked off (or knocked over).

Maybe it means something, but I also cannot find out what. Could it be an allegory of Strike setting Matthew aside in Robin's life?

And, also, I think the scene when Strike opens the door for Robin with the roses, accompanies her up to the office is cute. And when Wardle assumes they are from Strike to Robin....

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07/24/2017 - 12:14 pm

honoraryskywalker said
Thank you all for your replies!

You're right, it was more than 50 roses! It's very expensive... and totally something Matt could do. But again, after rereading it and finding all those odd occurrences of flowers and roses in the text I'm not sure.

I posted it here mainly because I thought it was more speculation than a comment on a specific chapter... so I thought it fit better here. But of course we can continue the discussion in the book club, if you prefer :).  

Completely up to you. Whatever makes you happy! CoolCoolCool

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07/24/2017 - 8:18 am

Thank you all for your replies!

Caitlin said </strong

Also Robin ignoring the card is not the same as Robin ignoring Cormoran's voicemail because she doesn't know that he left her one!
 

I meant "ignore" as in "not know". In CoE we have 2 messages addressed to Robin (the card and the voicemail) that - though of course for very different reasons - never reach her... and I thought it was an odd coincidence.

LindMea, your theory is very interesting... and scary. I really hope Robin never has to meet or think about that man again, and that in the next books we see her healing. I think she's already taken some huge steps, mainly thanks to Strike and her job. And she managed to fight Laing when he tried to attack her. That must have been so important and empowering for her.

Maybe you're right and the flowers & card were just another "I love you so much, please take me back, I won't hurt you anymore, I've changed" from Matt. It's the most logical explanation, and the one I unconsciously took for granted when I first read the book.
I don't know. I can't come up with a plausible alternative theory.

But if Rowling only wanted to use the roses to show us that Robin doesn't really love Matt, she could have found other "easier" solutions.
For example, Robin might have opened the card, seen it was from Matt, and then discarded it.

But the fact that

1) the name of the sender is never even confirmed, and
2) throughout chapter 31 there's so much talk of those flowers, and this little subplot even extends to the following chapters

still sounds a little bit fishy to me.

DonnaN said
Wasn't it something like 3 or 4 dozen red roses? That would have been an expensive gift. Laing wouldn't have sent something that expensive.

Just wondering...LOL

I was wondering why this has not been brought to the book club chapters? This is great stuff!  

You're right, it was more than 50 roses! It's very expensive... and totally something Matt could do. But again, after rereading it and finding all those odd occurrences of flowers and roses in the text I'm not sure.

I posted it here mainly because I thought it was more speculation than a comment on a specific chapter... so I thought it fit better here. But of course we can continue the discussion in the book club, if you prefer :).

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07/22/2017 - 8:43 pm

Wasn't it something like 3 or 4 dozen red roses? That would have been an expensive gift. Laing wouldn't have sent something that expensive.

Just wondering...LOL

I was wondering why this has not been brought to the book club chapters? This is great stuff!

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07/22/2017 - 3:28 pm

LindMea said
I'm still collecting my thoughts about all the different appearances of flowers, because they definitely were all over the place!

But in regards to the roses that Robin got sent... I just thought of something horrible 🙁 So we know that the man who raped Robin was a serial rapist, and that she got him put away - but we don't know for how long. I looked up legal sentences in England, and found this starting point - "repeated Rape of same victim by single offender or rape involving multiple victims: 15 years custody" I think it is quite possible that the guy didn't get a harsher sentence, because let's be real - he's a middle aged, mild mannered white dude. If he got fifteen years, that means he could be out on parole in 7.5 - and how long ago was the rape? Was it when Robin was 19? If it was, this guy could be OUT OF JAIL. What if he's become fixated on Robin as the one who escaped and got him locked up? What if the flowers are a threat of some kind??

I know that this is absolutely off the wall. I actually think that Matthew sent the flowers, and that the unread card is really just another signal to the reader that Robin should not marry this guy, because she doesn't actually love him!

I just thought I'd throw another crazy theory out there :p  

Well actually your theory isn't that crazy! It's totally possible that he is targeting her because she was the one that put him in jail and that the once more wants to harm her! Robin has changed and I don't think he will get the chance but I would like to see what Cormoran will do to protect her and maybe come even closer to her and how Robin will succesfull defend herself this time! Not a bad theory at all!

But things might be as well so simple and the roses with the card are only used to show us that Robin even if she believes that she loves Matthew doesn't care enough about the flowers he send her and doesn't even care to read what he wrote to her and her feelings towards him aren't so strong anymore!

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07/22/2017 - 2:50 pm

I'm still collecting my thoughts about all the different appearances of flowers, because they definitely were all over the place!

But in regards to the roses that Robin got sent... I just thought of something horrible 🙁 So we know that the man who raped Robin was a serial rapist, and that she got him put away - but we don't know for how long. I looked up legal sentences in England, and found this starting point - "repeated Rape of same victim by single offender or rape involving multiple victims: 15 years custody" I think it is quite possible that the guy didn't get a harsher sentence, because let's be real - he's a middle aged, mild mannered white dude. If he got fifteen years, that means he could be out on parole in 7.5 - and how long ago was the rape? Was it when Robin was 19? If it was, this guy could be OUT OF JAIL. What if he's become fixated on Robin as the one who escaped and got him locked up? What if the flowers are a threat of some kind??

I know that this is absolutely off the wall. I actually think that Matthew sent the flowers, and that the unread card is really just another signal to the reader that Robin should not marry this guy, because she doesn't actually love him!

I just thought I'd throw another crazy theory out there :p

~~~ Follow me on Tumblr | Find my Strike Series Fanfic on A03 ~~~

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07/22/2017 - 2:43 pm

honoraryskywalker said
In chapter 31 of CoE, Robin receives a bunch of roses with a card attached. She doesn't care about the roses, thinking they're from Matthew (who's trying to make peace with her). So, after a while, she throws the roses away and the card is left unread.

I think this incident may have some meaning. Copying and pasting from my ramblings on Tumblr (I already posted it there but I'd like to hear your opinions):

Flowers (roses in particular) pop up many times throughout the book, with reference both to the main mystery plot and the Robin/Cormoran plot.
(Joking. We all know the main plot is Robin/Cormoran).

- Laing has a golden rose tattooed on his forearm, and when he visits Laing’s hometown Strike sees yellow/golden roses which remind him of that tattoo. (The epigraph for that chapter starts with the line So grab your rose and ringside seat, from Before the Kiss - the same song from the last chapter’s epigraph “a redcap, a redcap before the kiss”).
- The epigraphs of chapters 59 and 61 are:
Chapter 59: With threats of gas and rose motif.
Chapter 61: And now the time has come at last / To crush the motif of the rose.
Again, both are taken from the song “Before the Kiss”
- Laing buys “It” flowers to “play the nice guy”.
- there are roses in Robin’s hair at the wedding.
- actually, flowers are the first thing that comes up every time Robin thinks about the arrangements for the wedding…
- … and probably Rowling did this intentionally, because, as we know, during the wedding, it’s a flower stand that Cormoran sends crashing to the floor. (Interestingly, these flowers are also roses: The smell of roses met him: white roses of Yorkshire blooming in tall stands and hanging in bunches at the ends of the packed queues.)
- The final clue that allows Strike to figure out Laing’s plan is also inspired by an injured Robin talking about the flowers for her wedding: Daffodils… lily of the valley… flowers out of season.
- Then of course we have the “over 50 roses” delivered to Robin.

The chapter in which Robin receives the roses starts and ends with references to the flowers: the epigraph is Nighttime flowers, evening roses,Bless this garden that never closes. And the last line of the chapter is: She was halfway up Denmark Street in the sunshine before Robin remembered that there had been a card with the now-battered roses, and that she had left it behind, unread.

And then, in the following chapters, Rowling takes time to inform us about the fate of the roses, which are left to wither on Robin’s desk (as Strike doesn’t want to dispose of them himself) until Robin throws them into the bin (the card is still unread).

I think it’s a little too much for something that’s completely inconsequential and irrelevant to the plot, especially knowing Rowling.

Moreover, there’s a parallelism between this chapter (chapter 31) and what happens at the end of the book:
- Strike knocks over both the roses on Robin’s desk and the flower stand in the church.
- Robin ignores the content of two messages addressed to her: the card attached to the flowers and Strike’s voicemail.

Again, it seems to me that this might mean something, but I have no idea what it could be exactly.

Also, while Robin clearly thinks the flowers come from Matthew, we never know for sure. And he never seems to ask her about it (though maybe it’s only because he’s trying to win her love back). So, there’s also the possibility that the flowers weren’t sent by Matthew.

I’ve read an article suggesting that the flowers might have been sent by Charlotte to Cormoran, but I think it’s quite far-fetched.
However, I think that unread card might turn out to be quite important.

Any thoughts? Am I just overthinking it?  

First of all I don't think you are overthinking it because flowers and especially roses are mentioned to many times through the book!

My question is who else besides Matthew had a reason to send Robin flowers?
Another one is what would be possibly writen on the card so important to Robin and how would this affect her?
If they were from Matthew what could he possibly have written besides that he is sorry and ask for Robin's forgiveness?
Also Robin ignoring the card is not the same as Robin ignoring Cormoran's voicemail because she doesn't know that he left her one!
I kinda doubt that the flowers were meant for Cormoran! Why? It's usually the man who sends flowers to his love interest! Ok Charlotte is not a typical kind of woman but then again why send him flowers? To tell him something important? Then why not show up? I don't consider her a woman how is afraid to act on something she wants!
Could it be Sarah who send the flowers in order to reveal something to Robin about Matthew? (Kinda far-fetched, right?)
I doubt that it was Cormoran sending flowers to Robin because I don't find a reason why he should have!
If what was written in the card is so important how long are we gonna wait to find out what it is? Are we ever gonna find out?
Cormoran crushing the flowers twice indicates that the wedding will also be "crushed" because of his presence? Kinda foreshadowing?
Is it possible for Matthew to have now another mistress who isn't at all happy that he is getting married and wanted to tell Robin that Matthew is cheating on her? And if so why sent such an amount of flowers?

As it seems I have many questions but not a convincing theory about the Roses and the card! But it's a quite interesting topic and maybe another member comes up with a theory!

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07/22/2017 - 1:52 pm

In chapter 31 of CoE, Robin receives a bunch of roses with a card attached. She doesn't care about the roses, thinking they're from Matthew (who's trying to make peace with her). So, after a while, she throws the roses away and the card is left unread.

I think this incident may have some meaning. Copying and pasting from my ramblings on Tumblr (I already posted it there but I'd like to hear your opinions):

Flowers (roses in particular) pop up many times throughout the book, with reference both to the main mystery plot and the Robin/Cormoran plot.
(Joking. We all know the main plot is Robin/Cormoran).

- Laing has a golden rose tattooed on his forearm, and when he visits Laing’s hometown Strike sees yellow/golden roses which remind him of that tattoo. (The epigraph for that chapter starts with the line So grab your rose and ringside seat, from Before the Kiss - the same song from the last chapter’s epigraph “a redcap, a redcap before the kiss”).
- The epigraphs of chapters 59 and 61 are:
Chapter 59: With threats of gas and rose motif.
Chapter 61: And now the time has come at last / To crush the motif of the rose.
Again, both are taken from the song “Before the Kiss”
- Laing buys “It” flowers to “play the nice guy”.
- there are roses in Robin’s hair at the wedding.
- actually, flowers are the first thing that comes up every time Robin thinks about the arrangements for the wedding…
- … and probably Rowling did this intentionally, because, as we know, during the wedding, it’s a flower stand that Cormoran sends crashing to the floor. (Interestingly, these flowers are also roses: The smell of roses met him: white roses of Yorkshire blooming in tall stands and hanging in bunches at the ends of the packed queues.)
- The final clue that allows Strike to figure out Laing’s plan is also inspired by an injured Robin talking about the flowers for her wedding: Daffodils… lily of the valley… flowers out of season.
- Then of course we have the “over 50 roses” delivered to Robin.

The chapter in which Robin receives the roses starts and ends with references to the flowers: the epigraph is Nighttime flowers, evening roses,Bless this garden that never closes. And the last line of the chapter is: She was halfway up Denmark Street in the sunshine before Robin remembered that there had been a card with the now-battered roses, and that she had left it behind, unread.

And then, in the following chapters, Rowling takes time to inform us about the fate of the roses, which are left to wither on Robin’s desk (as Strike doesn’t want to dispose of them himself) until Robin throws them into the bin (the card is still unread).

I think it’s a little too much for something that’s completely inconsequential and irrelevant to the plot, especially knowing Rowling.

Moreover, there’s a parallelism between this chapter (chapter 31) and what happens at the end of the book:
- Strike knocks over both the roses on Robin’s desk and the flower stand in the church.
- Robin ignores the content of two messages addressed to her: the card attached to the flowers and Strike’s voicemail.

Again, it seems to me that this might mean something, but I have no idea what it could be exactly.

Also, while Robin clearly thinks the flowers come from Matthew, we never know for sure. And he never seems to ask her about it (though maybe it’s only because he’s trying to win her love back). So, there’s also the possibility that the flowers weren’t sent by Matthew.

I’ve read an article suggesting that the flowers might have been sent by Charlotte to Cormoran, but I think it’s quite far-fetched.
However, I think that unread card might turn out to be quite important.

Any thoughts? Am I just overthinking it?

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