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"Kairos moment" or even a parallel...?
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09/29/2017 - 5:57 pm

“Kairos moment. An' it means," and from somewhere in his soused brain he dredged up words of surprising clarity, "the telling moment. The special moment. The supreme moment.”

- The Cuckoo's calling, Cormoran Strike

Just some thoughts...
Is it possible for Robin the moment she sees Cormoran in the ceremony to have a "kairos moment!" To realize that getting married to Matthew isn't at all what she really wants and that she isn't happy as a bride by his side! That she can't overcome the problems that exist in their relationhip and what he can offer her isn't what she really dreamed of...! A moment in which she decides to take her future in her hands and live the life she wants doing whatever pleases her!
Many can argue and say that for Robin who is a kind, loving and caring person to just dump Matthew at the altar would be out of character but being all those things doesn't make you naive! If she feels like she would destroy her life with this marriage she can't just stay there and let it happen and be once again a "victim" of her own fears this time!

Also if she leaves Matthew at the altar (or even at the reception) while seeing Cormoran and realize he wants her back and she can have the job she always wanted is a parallel to Cormoran putting his work first over Charlotte!

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09/30/2017 - 6:19 pm

Caitlin said

Is it possible for Robin the moment she sees Cormoran in the ceremony to have a "kairos moment!"

Yes, surely, but - I think - in another way as you imagine.

My interpretation:
Cormoran's Kairos moment was when Charlotte walked into his hospital ward unexpectedly and they became a pair. Robin's Kairos moment (as a parallel) could be: Cormoran walks into the church unexpectedly and they become a pair. :-))

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10/01/2017 - 12:02 pm

benedek said

Caitlin said

Is it possible for Robin the moment she sees Cormoran in the ceremony to have a "kairos moment!"

Yes, surely, but - I think - in another way as you imagine.

My interpretation:
Cormoran's Kairos moment was when Charlotte walked into his hospital ward unexpectedly and they became a pair. Robin's Kairos moment (as a parallel) could be: Cormoran walks into the church unexpectedly and they become a pair. :-))  

Believe me I have no problem with that! Even though I believe it's to soon for Robin to jump from one failed attemped to get married or failed marriage to a relationship with Cormoran and she should take her time to enjoy being single and discover herself and be free to do things she likes, the amazing chemistry between Tom and Holly (they act so natural the whole time while the characters they interpret are falling in love) that I want them a couple in the books and the tv-show as soon as possible! 🙂

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10/01/2017 - 3:38 pm

If you look at classical literature and philosophy, kairos is rather more complex. It is essential an idea of time, but not time in the way we may normally think of it now, but a more poetic sense, which may appeal to Strike. So far, we haven't been explicitly told what Cormoran read at Oxford (not which college, truth be told), but the love and knowledge of Cattalus, amongst others, and the sprinklings of ancient Greek and Latin make me think he's a definite classicist. Useful for a military career too - lots of discussion of battles of antiquity.

Instead, it is supposedly a "right, critical or opportune moment" - the correct moment to say or do that which must be done. Matthew thinks he may have had his, wiping the phone, but I suspect that one is going to come back and bite hm HARD.

I don't think Strike wants to stop the wedding. Not consciously anyway. I just think he thinks he needs to be there, and to see if he can make amends. There are clearly several people telling him in no uncertain terms that he was wrong, and the damage he perceived that would be done hasn't resulted now that Brockbank is not an issue. And he knows that this is a relationship worth saving. He admits to himself on the ride to Barrow that it's certainly the best professional relationship he has ever enjoyed. And he is more than aware of the other dimensions, though he's fighting against them (but he's losing, and I think we know that).

That said, go back to Chapter 11 of CoE, and these words:

Hearing her tell Wardle about he disposable wedding cameras she had ordered brought home to Strike how soon she would become Mrs Matthew Cunfliffe.

There's still time, he thought. For what, he did not specify, even to himself.

While the wedding may happen, I rather suspect that wedding reception is going to be very, very interesting...

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10/01/2017 - 5:21 pm

illuminatus said
If you look at classical literature and philosophy, kairos is rather more complex. It is essential an idea of time, but not time in the way we may normally think of it now, but a more poetic sense, which may appeal to Strike. So far, we haven't been explicitly told what Cormoran read at Oxford (not which college, truth be told), but the love and knowledge of Cattalus, amongst others, and the sprinklings of ancient Greek and Latin make me think he's a definite classicist. Useful for a military career too - lots of discussion of battles of antiquity.

Instead, it is supposedly a "right, critical or opportune moment" - the correct moment to say or do that which must be done. Matthew thinks he may have had his, wiping the phone, but I suspect that one is going to come back and bite hm HARD.

I don't think Strike wants to stop the wedding. Not consciously anyway. I just think he thinks he needs to be there, and to see if he can make amends. There are clearly several people telling him in no uncertain terms that he was wrong, and the damage he perceived that would be done hasn't resulted now that Brockbank is not an issue. And he knows that this is a relationship worth saving. He admits to himself on the ride to Barrow that it's certainly the best professional relationship he has ever enjoyed. And he is more than aware of the other dimensions, though he's fighting against them (but he's losing, and I think we know that).

That said, go back to Chapter 11 of CoE, and these words:

Hearing her tell Wardle about he disposable wedding cameras she had ordered brought home to Strike how soon she would become Mrs Matthew Cunfliffe.

There's still time, he thought. For what, he did not specify, even to himself.

While the wedding may happen, I rather suspect that wedding reception is going to be very, very interesting...  

I don't refere to what Cormoran wants or intends to do while going to the ceremony! It's all about Robin and how Robin will be affected by his presence and how she will react! Cormoran doesn't need to do anything anymore, he is just there for what he believes are his reasons and now it's up to Robin what she is going to do next (knowing that she has her job back which Cormoran's presence indicates) Him being there might cause a "kairos moment" (as described in The Cuckoo's calling) to her and she decides that she wants a life away from Matthew and doing a job she really wants and deep down she knows that while being married to Matthew this isn't going to be possible!
Besides we don't know nothing about what happened after Matthew messed with her phone! She might already know it and thinking she hasn't a way out and goes on with the wedding but seeing Cormoran there she understands that she has still an alternative!

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10/02/2017 - 8:37 am

Besides we don't know nothing about what happened after Matthew messed with her phone! She might already know it and thinking she hasn't a way out and goes on with the wedding but seeing Cormoran there she understands that she has still an alternative!

I'm not entirely convinced by this. She's already called the wedding off once, and she meant it then. So she's not the kind of girl who'll meekly go along with a wedding she doesn't want. Not now she isn't. She knows that her mother isn't bothered about the dull stuff like the cost of things from the aftermath of the initial split. Truth is, part of Robin wants to be married, because she still loves Matthew (at least that's what she keeps telling herself, even though she's having to work harder to convince herself of that as time goes on) . JK is quite explicit: "her new husband". They are married. I don't think we'll be seeing a moment like the end of The Graduate, but I do think that Robin and Matthew's marriage isn't going to be very happy. The fault lines are clear, and they're only going to get wider. She even kind of admits to herself at one point that perhaps they're really only still together because of a love borne out of duty. And that's being tested now.

Besides, from a writer's point of view, it's much more interesting not to have the quick resolution, and prolong the agony. How much more pressure can be put on Robin's working life by a more complicated and fractious home life, but now with an added sense of entitlement on Matthew's part because they['re married. That makes for much more interesting narrative.

The more I think about it, the more this series is full of kairos moments: points of inflection that change things hugely. From the moment he first meets Robin, to her suggesting cutting out the agency, to her negotiating her permanent place. Robin seems to instigate them: she is the driving force. In some ways, Strike is almost carried along by her. I think the big moment early in book 4 will be Robin accepting the offer to go back, which Matthew will really hate. And I think Strike may have something to say to Matthew about that. I think there will be some harsh truths told in Masham.

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10/02/2017 - 1:36 pm

illuminatus said

Besides we don't know nothing about what happened after Matthew messed with her phone! She might already know it and thinking she hasn't a way out and goes on with the wedding but seeing Cormoran there she understands that she has still an alternative!

I'm not entirely convinced by this. She's already called the wedding off once, and she meant it then. So she's not the kind of girl who'll meekly go along with a wedding she doesn't want. Not now she isn't. She knows that her mother isn't bothered about the dull stuff like the cost of things from the aftermath of the initial split. Truth is, part of Robin wants to be married, because she still loves Matthew (at least that's what she keeps telling herself, even though she's having to work harder to convince herself of that as time goes on) . JK is quite explicit: "her new husband". They are married. I don't think we'll be seeing a moment like the end of The Graduate, but I do think that Robin and Matthew's marriage isn't going to be very happy. The fault lines are clear, and they're only going to get wider. She even kind of admits to herself at one point that perhaps they're really only still together because of a love borne out of duty. And that's being tested now.

Besides, from a writer's point of view, it's much more interesting not to have the quick resolution, and prolong the agony. How much more pressure can be put on Robin's working life by a more complicated and fractious home life, but now with an added sense of entitlement on Matthew's part because they['re married. That makes for much more interesting narrative.

The more I think about it, the more this series is full of kairos moments: points of inflection that change things hugely. From the moment he first meets Robin, to her suggesting cutting out the agency, to her negotiating her permanent place. Robin seems to instigate them: she is the driving force. In some ways, Strike is almost carried along by her. I think the big moment early in book 4 will be Robin accepting the offer to go back, which Matthew will really hate. And I think Strike may have something to say to Matthew about that. I think there will be some harsh truths told in Masham.  

So in a few words you don't believe that Cormoran's presence is going to affect the outcome of the ceremony!
And if indeed Matthew is her husband (the only thing that makes me think that is indeed so is how he is described in the last sentence) then why should be Career of evil's ending concidered as a cliffhanger?
As for Matthew being present in Lethal White as Robin's husband isn't going to add anything in the story that we don't already know! He is controlling, manipulative and disrespecitve to her so what more could he do? In my opinion the only thing that will Matthew make me feel is boredom the moments I will have to read about him!

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10/02/2017 - 6:23 pm

illuminatus said
Truth is, part of Robin wants to be married, because she still loves Matthew (at least that's what she keeps telling herself, even though she's having to work harder to convince herself of that as time goes on) .

I am not sure she still loves Matthew.... And actually I don't think she keeps telling herself that she loves him. At least not after she learned that he cheated on her. The last time she told this herself was before that, I think. And even that was not too convincing. It was when her mother tried to get something out of her about Strike:

...Robin realized that she was afraid that Linda might tell her it wasn't too late to back out of the wedding if she wanted to. Tired and low though she was, and in spite of the fact that hey had had several rocky months, she knew that she loved Matthew. The dress was made, the church was booked, the reception almost paid for. She must plough on, now, and get to the finishing line.

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10/02/2017 - 8:12 pm

Actually, after their split (after Strike fires her), there’s an interesting point where she says something to herself like, “this was the man she had to marry...no, that she wanted to marry” (paraphrasing, but so think that’s pretty much it). So, basically it’s complicated.

Amusingly, I’ve just been glancing through Silkworm again. There’s something amusing - and very interesting - on page 98. Strike has just met Matthew. As Robin and Matthew leave the pub, Robin is trying to get Matthew to say what he thinks of her boss. She says, “He’s nice, isn’t he?” Matthew’s reply is very interesting:

He’ll probably arrive forty minutes bloody late and ruin the wedding.

Never mind Mystic Bob, how about that for Mystic Matt! 😁

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10/02/2017 - 9:00 pm

benedek said

illuminatus said
Truth is, part of Robin wants to be married, because she still loves Matthew (at least that's what she keeps telling herself, even though she's having to work harder to convince herself of that as time goes on) .

I am not sure she still loves Matthew.... And actually I don't think she keeps telling herself that she loves him. At least not after she learned that he cheated on her. The last time she told this herself was before that, I think. And even that was not too convincing. It was when her mother tried to get something out of her about Strike:

...Robin realized that she was afraid that Linda might tell her it wasn't too late to back out of the wedding if she wanted to. Tired and low though she was, and in spite of the fact that hey had had several rocky months, she knew that she loved Matthew. The dress was made, the church was booked, the reception almost paid for. She must plough on, now, and get to the finishing line.  

I believe that after Cormoran fires her she is mentioning while thinking, something like " she was going to marry Matthew whom she loved"
But what I don't get is how she doesn't realize she doesn't love him anymore...
1. Like when she is cooking and he comes at home and he says "I love you" the way she says it back for example!
2. That she isn't thrilled anymore with her wedding preparations!
3. That she isn't smiling on her wedding day!
I think she tries to convince herself that the reason she accepted him back was out of love and not because it was the safe thing to do! Also when you are so many years with one person things aren't very clear about how you feel anymore, you tend to confuse things!
That's why I believe that her marriage with Matthew (if he is her husband after all) will be a waste of time! I really don't want her to leave him only because she discovers what he did with her phone! I want for her to realize he isn't right for her and leave him (best choice, at the altar) and after she discovers what he did with her phone she will be sure she made the right choice!
Also there is no one that can convince me that Matthew's presence will make the story between Robin and Cormoran more interesting! He can be only used as an obstacle and make Robin misarable but he already has done those things for three books!

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10/03/2017 - 2:39 pm

Caitlin said

I believe that after Cormoran fires her she is mentioning while thinking, something like " she was going to marry Matthew whom she loved"

Could it be that you are confusing this with the words illuminatus mentioned above?

"She turned away, heading for the kitchen, resolving that she would not shout at Matthew. If they rowed it would feel like a triumph for Strike. She refused to allow her ex-boss to sully her relationship with the man whom she had to - the man whom she wanted to marry in three days' time."

I really cannot remember anything else in the subject around that time.

Why would she not say something like "her relationship with the man whom she loved" if she was about to convince herself that she loves Matthew?

My reading of the last chapters of CoE is that Matthew - if anything - only irritates her by then.

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10/03/2017 - 6:30 pm

benedek said

Caitlin said

I believe that after Cormoran fires her she is mentioning while thinking, something like " she was going to marry Matthew whom she loved"

Could it be that you are confusing this with the words illuminatus mentioned above?

"She turned away, heading for the kitchen, resolving that she would not shout at Matthew. If they rowed it would feel like a triumph for Strike. She refused to allow her ex-boss to sully her relationship with the man whom she had to - the man whom she wanted to marry in three days' time."

I really cannot remember anything else in the subject around that time.

Why would she not say something like "her relationship with the man whom she loved" if she was about to convince herself that she loves Matthew?

My reading of the last chapters of CoE is that Matthew - if anything - only irritates her by then.  

Yes you are right, I don't know why I thought she mentioned she loved him in that frase! But seriously though "had to?" Even though she corrected it with "wanted to" I believe that the first one is correct!

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